Your Ad Here
Your Ad Here

15 Comments Already

commenter
November 7th, 2008 @3:45 am  

You say:
am against adopting one of those Imams opinions without thinking about why they said so

I totally agree. And not just that, I think one should NEVER follow any commandment - even from the Quran - until he thinks about it. If you don’t know the reason behind what you do, then most likely you’re doing it wrong.

The point you raise is a very important one. Rashid Al-Ghannoushi, ex-head of muslim brotherhood in Tunisia wrote his PhD thesis on “rights in islamic state” (now available as a book Al-Hurriyat al-ammah fi alislam). He has a big chapter in it specifically about Apostasy. His conclusion is that the punishment of Apostasy is a political one, and not religious. I.e., Islamic state might execute a spy causing sabotage or a traitor. Religious views on their own do not call for any punishment, just discussion.

However, he did say that earlier scholars in general were harsher on apostasy than later & modern ones.

But, beyond apostasy,

commenter
kinzi Said,
November 7th, 2008 @2:13 pm  

Thanks for bringing this up. There are many Muslims who are privately following Christianity and live in this fear of discovery daily. They are not stupid, made their choice and know the potential cost…it was worth it for them.

This mandate, death penalty for apostasy, just doesn’t work in this age.

commenter
November 8th, 2008 @12:08 am  

I see ur point, but sometimes i think that it will be really hard to teach multiple islamic ways in school. We don’t focus much on islam in school, and teaching multiple ways can be confusing. They do try to explain why each thing is halal or haram. But i guess a small mention of the other ways every now and then should be included.

i know in perfect world that is definitely the best solution, but it is hard to implement, or harder to.

About apostasy, i think kinzi understood it a little bit differently than what i think u meant. Anyway, i was thinking about all the weird question sometimes we face, i know this not a very good solution, but i feel we should care much much much more about what is between our hands rather than things that deeply in the future or answers that doesn’t affect us at all.

Like apostasy, i don’t think we are in any position to implement such punishments because it will immediatly back fire, most apostates are apostates from the “tradional-islamic” religion, not pure islam. I think before forcing such things, a real islamic state must be established. Like jihad, you don’t do it before u have a fully functional islamic state.

I don’t know if ever there will be a complete islamic state again, sometimes i try to think of scenarios where such things happen, but it is hard, i feel starting a state from scratch will have a bettter shot that trying to make one of the semi-islamic states into a fully islamic one.

maybe build a city in jordan that only allow strict islamic rules :D. and if that city prospered SOMEHOW, then people would want to go there, and they are forced to live by its rules and… etc. that’s the scenario i keep thinking. of course it doesn’t have to be in jordan, but just a thought.

u know, all the way of writing the comment, i feel reluctant, i think mainly because i can’t do anything about these things which make me care less about them and not have a very clear idea where i stand about them.

commenter
yuri Said,
November 8th, 2008 @12:49 am  

I told u before what Islamic education should be more about rather than memorizing the halal haram mandob mkroh and mobah things!

Currently I am facing something so irritating with my little brother! he is so careless and most of the times setting on the computer listening to Michael Jackson and thinking in stupid paradoxes such as the God-stone paradox! I keep solving them one after another for him! he resorts to me because he know am tolerant and possibly I have an answer for his question because I was just like him before, he won’t ask one of the religion teachers because he know what the reaction will be!

Religion classes in school were the most boring lectures after math (for me) but I love Islam! Because again they used just to make us memorize a7kam! not only that, but the teachers them selves where not ready to teach us and will use stupid things like (ele 2ktshafat elthara aslamt lma 2ktshft eno elkor2an fe klmt thara) and when u grow up u are likely to feel like what the hell!!???

They should teach us Quran instead! I find it bad that I can not understand Quran language! And they should give it a practical dimension!

Anyways, I know many guys who are atheist and supposedly were born for Muslim families! Now they do not believe in God, not only Islam, so this makes them apostates of Islam not traditional Islam! So I think this is something I had in mind for a long time and it should be clarified.

And about how Islam will come back, Allah said it will so I will not bother my self to think in scenarios =) just let us be true Muslims so that this time come.

About kinzi, I do not know what is wrong with what he said, but it is the same thing I have in mind actually!

commenter
yuri Said,
November 8th, 2008 @1:02 am  

and s3d, what pushed me to write this post was the fact that when my mam knew that obamas father was muslim and that he was christian, the first thing she had in mind was: “should not he be killed?”

This is what we think about these days?! we started to act like bloodthurst people, always resorting to death as a penalty and solution! BUT ISLAM IS NOT LIKE THIS!

And am talking about killings carried out by individuals, it is I think a real thing that might happen!

commenter
Tamer Said,
November 8th, 2008 @3:40 am  

we should let anyone in or out of islam as they please. to force people to stay muslims means to create a 5th column in our midst. besides, we are better off if some Muslims convert to other religions, like our lovely dictators and those around them. they give Islam such a horrendous reputation with their repression and corruption we are better off facilitating their exit.

commenter
yuri Said,
November 8th, 2008 @12:25 pm  

Tamer! exactly =)

commenter
XZeeR Said,
November 8th, 2008 @8:32 pm  

aha, so if a 13 year old emo kid decides that he hates islam because he cant fondle his girlfriend and we give him the green light to renounce his faith, thats ok ? lets say that after he renounces islam he grows up and get married and have children which will most likely be athiests or w.e their father choses as a religion , thats ok with u ?

the death sentence to anyone that renounces faith is a way to protect the islamic community and never open a door for the weak at heart to ruin the society, and alot of ppl will fall for the Domino effect if those weak at heart starts to renounce islam even for the slightest thing.

and lets remember the Quran verse that says - in the meaning - that if the matter was left to ppls wishes earth will be destroyed , or something similar to that meaning

commenter
yuri Said,
November 8th, 2008 @9:10 pm  

Xzeer, do u think that anyone will renounce his faith for such a stupid cause?! besides I think a 13 years old boy will not think this way!!

Regardless, I told u, it is political, so we are not forced to do it and we can call it off!

commenter
XZeeR Said,
November 8th, 2008 @11:52 pm  

ppl ARE stupid, u cant leave matter in the hands of the common person or u will fail, simple as that.
and u know it as a scientific fact that a 13 year old boy wont do that ? some kids killed their parents over minor things, and as a part of ” bab sad al thara2e3″ there has to be a defining - harsh if u will- rule that prevents such behaviour .

commenter
yuri Said,
November 9th, 2008 @1:43 pm  

Donno! told u it is political so there is a room for discussion I think!

besides man this is getting kind of strange! that other day u told me that I should not make fun out of gays! was it a joke or for real?! because if u believe that gays should be free to do what ever they want then freedom of thoughts is more important than freedom of sex!

commenter
Slvador Limonis Said,
November 10th, 2008 @2:00 am  

See, my head hurts again. i really don’t know where exactly i stand about these things, but i always end up thinking, this won’t affect me at all, so there is no real need to figure out an answer.

I know killing as a punishment seems harsh and everything, but u can’t judge things by harsh or not. I know yuri is not saying that, but some of the other comments felt that way. Yuri’s point of view is valid that WE NEED TO DISCUSS these things and the islam educational system need an overhaul. Yuri is not saying WE SHOULDN’T kill oe WE SHOULD kill, as i understood he is saying, it is up to the political decision makers.

What xzeer is right as well but i think the decision has to be made on specific time cases, like when some time comes where this punishment need to be carried out, or other times where this punishment is not necessary, like if the apostate percentage is sooo small that even their children doesn’t affect it, or maybe the children go back to islam for some reason or another and this isn’t impossible.

there is several students here who converted to Islam against their parents will, and some of them did that while in middle school.

again, i don’t know what i am saying, i still don’t have a strong feeling a way or another. but I do know sometimes we have to do things we don’t necessary believe it is the right thing, after all we don’t know everything.

commenter
mustafa Said,
November 11th, 2008 @3:58 am  

hey guys what are you talking about
yuri the 4 imams wasnt in defrant ways
they just had defrant thinking way
and the defrance between them wasnt that degree of importance
like your stand in prayer or things like this
not in “3akeda”
i dont know if you can see the defrance
and yuri you cant always take the hard way as the best way
most times the solution is infront of our eyes
why to think in something clear
hard way dosent mean that it is the right way
you can think about theorys
but you cant think about Basic”mosalamat” cos you will fined your self in circle

commenter
yuri Said,
November 11th, 2008 @11:47 am  

Mustafa am not quit sure of what u are talking about, the 4 Imams were great people, but I mean the followers of these Imams made of them Gods which is very wrong.

And about the Mosalamat, killing an apostate in Islam is not Mosalama, this is why I want to write this post! To make it clear for others.

commenter
XZeeR Said,
November 11th, 2008 @12:28 pm  

yea true, the punishmenet falls under ” ta3zeer” i think , which means its up to the governer/ruler to decide what is the best punishement.

and about the gay matter i was being sarcastic :)..

Related Post

Please Leave Your Comments Below

Please Note: All comments will be moderated